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magicJack and MagicJack Plus Support, Reviews, FAQs and Hacks
magicJack and magicJack Plus Unofficial Technical Support. Your Magic Jack and Magic Jack Plus phone service information resource
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ
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 Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: |
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| AlaninKY wrote: | Hi BuffaloChuck,
I agree with you and it was actually
az2008 wrote the statement ""should be terminated for hours a day" |
Geez, you guys. I said "should expect to be." I was just reporting what MJ was doing.
I agree with "BuffaloChuck" that the limits should be published. But, the ToS says MJ can terminate for "excessive use."
Mark |
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 10:11 am Post subject: Magicjack support, tips, tricks, and hacks |
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BuffaloChuck
magicJack Apprentice
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, yeah, I shoulda read more carefully, Alain! LOL - leave it to a smart guy like AZ to point out yet another of my many errors!
"Stand in line, stand in line - no cutting in line - he's got enough mistakes for everyone..." LOL
I'm not sure what 'excessive' would mean, and I have a feeling this would be debatable in a class-action lawsuit. "Normal use" for vehicles depends on geography. A farmer's truck dealer knows the farmer's 'normal use' is different than a city-dweller's, and class-action lawsuits have successfully allowed farmers' recoupment for 'normal use' damages while city truck dealers wouldn't have to pay for those warranty items.
So, customer knowledge and dealer understandings has been a key in class actions.
A customer's normal usage of phone services by Bell & AT&T accepted some businesses used the phone all the time. None of those employees ever were 'cut off' for being on the phone. That was normal, and the vendor (phone service) accepted that.
Just because a vendor refuses to ask specific questions OR make specific guidelines, I'd think "class action" would be most detrimental to that vendor's cause.
But, let's go further... how is MJ limited and by whom? This goes back to another question - what are they monitoring? Who's monitoring them? Why?
This bothers me. The incredibly sloppy programming I've seen from MJ makes me agree with the "I'm amazed it works at all!" camp. Now I wonder - is all this bad programming a convenient cloaking device?
I'm still not certain why MJ didn't get a GOOD programmer (or doesn't do it now) and make this good product into an excellent one? It's only the software that's keeping it from being excellent. Easily changed software. We've seen some good workarounds here, but those could be successfully replaced with good original programming. |
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| BuffaloChuck wrote: | | I'm not sure what 'excessive' would mean, and I have a feeling this would be debatable in a class-action lawsuit. |
On the one hand, I agree that MJ would reduce the number of really angry customers (who feel motivated to file BBB complaints, and write "rip off" reports) if it stated clearly what the usage limits are.
But, talk of class-action lawsuits isn't realistic. The ToS says MJ can terminate for excessive use. And, it says MJ is the sole "decider" of such terms. It would boil down to 1) you were supposed to read the ToS. 2) The ToS says that if you don't agree to any term, you may not use MJ. 3) If you didn't agree to the undefined "excessive use," it was your responsibility to get it defined. Or, return MJ in the 30-day window.
Now, there were people who contacted dead chat when all the terminations occurred, asking what the limit is. Some were told there is no limit. That could be actionable. (But, others were told "just try to keep your calls short.").
But, the real thing is, the people who were terminated would tell you that they got far more than $20 or $40 use out of it. The amount of time they used came out to be something like 1/10th of a penny per minute. I can't imagine a jury being sympathetic to a telemarketer (extreme example) who made 200 calls per day, saving about $200 a month using a $1.70-per-month service that was cut short after 6 months.
It also seems like MJ's stopped terminating people. There was a big flare-up a month or two ago. And then we've heard nothing.
| BuffaloChuck wrote: | | The incredibly sloppy programming I've seen from MJ makes me agree with the "I'm amazed it works at all!" camp. Now I wonder - is all this bad programming a convenient cloaking device? |
It's been theorized that the way the softphone opens the USB flash drive for write every 3 seconds could be a way to exhaust the flash drive's lifespan, forcing users to have to buy a new MJ in a year or two (instead of using the same device for 5 years).
Some people may not realize it, but the same area of a flash drive can only be written to a certain number of times. A special filesystem was designed for flash drives to ensure that writes are spread across the drive, not reusing blocks until all blocks have the same number of writes. That's a way to extend their lifespan.
The way MJ is opening the drive for writes every 3 seconds, it could be a way to make sure the MJ flash drive doesn't have an indefinite lifespan (since it doesn't receive much writing anyway. Just the address book, etc.).
Mark |
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BuffaloChuck
magicJack Apprentice
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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AZ, thanks for that last bit. I've never considered that, and I've passed it on. I mean, the computer industry is FULL of examples of planned-obsolescence - "so why not one more?!!"
Fascinating. THanks also for the tips on terminating users. As I wondered on another thread - I wonder who's monitoring? Why? What are they monitoring? And who is Dan/MJ answering to when call-limits have occurred 'reasonable' to them. There's got to be pressure somewhere. And when will that be relieved?
It's a fascinating product... I am exploring the "run without dongle As Service" capabilities, and will run ProcMon to see what issues occur.
Boy, if I was going to write a dead-by-X-date, I'd have used a more predictable method. Not X number of flashes. But that's an interesting theory. Thanks... more than a few coffees will be served with that one! |
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| BuffaloChuck wrote: | | if I was going to write a dead-by-X-date, I'd have used a more predictable method. Not X number of flash [writes]. |
You could be right. Maybe the constant open/close churn is just poor programming, not a conspiracy. You're right that it would have been easier (and more predictable) to just disable it through software.
For example, if you've gotten your money's worth (20,000 minutes or 20 months?), the proxy which the softphone maintains a connection to could just send a "86 it" message to the softphone. The softphone could display RC=4 messages. Abort abruptly. Not respond to input (hang). Just random behavior to cause the observer to believe without a doubt that something big went wrong.
And then tech support could suggest "Clamidia: Would please be always using a surge protector?" (Where do these support people get their screen names, anyway?).
I've had that theory about the Ooma service. It's based on a one-time expensive hardware purchase. After that, it's free. I don't believe that model can be sustainable (without an endless influx of new customers). There has to be a catch, like they end-of-life your hardware after some amount of time. The hardware acts as a proxy for pre-paid minutes(?).
Mark |
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BuffaloChuck
magicJack Apprentice
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: POST GUFFAW WARNING PUH-LEEZE! |
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| Mark, "Clamidia" - I swear - if I'd had a mouthful of Mtn Dew, I'd be cussin' you out, laughing all the while I wiped down the screen, keyboard, wall, etc. Clamidia. jiminy... I wish you'd post a warning about writing funny posts! "Do not read with full mouth" or something. |
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davrow
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me
Joined: 15 Oct 2008
Posts: 179
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| BuffaloChuck wrote: | | But exactly what IS it that they're monitoring? Calling distances? Frequency of calls? Length of calls? All of the above? Some? |
Their TOS does state that they monitor who you are calling so they can target their marketing to the types of businesses you dial most frequently. Among other things... |
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kumar
Dan Should Pay Me
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Posts: 806
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| Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: Re: POST GUFFAW WARNING PUH-LEEZE! |
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| BuffaloChuck wrote: | | Mark, "Clamidia" - I swear - if I'd had a mouthful of Mtn Dew, I'd be cussin' you out, laughing all the while I wiped down the screen, keyboard, wall, etc. Clamidia. jiminy... I wish you'd post a warning about writing funny posts! "Do not read with full mouth" or something. |
I literally LOLed
=] Kumar
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Will not be on forum until after June 15th. |
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BuffaloChuck
magicJack Apprentice
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Kumar, it's several days after this and I'm STILL cleaning my blasted desktop because of AZ. I really hate him sometimes. |
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BuffaloChuck
magicJack Apprentice
Joined: 16 Dec 2008
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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DavRow, it's kind of spooky that they're "monitoring us" for BUSINESS purposes?!! Huh?!!
For what reason is that? To sell frequently called phone numbers to ?? and make more money? How? Why?
If MJ is depending on a pyramid scheme for profits, wow - that's spooky. The whole "monitoring" issue to be EASILY clarified - "length of time" would be an EASY 3-word insertion for clarification.
But the Spook Factor is getting a lot larger than smaller. |
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az2008
MagicJack Sensei
Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 1404
Location: Tempe, AZ
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| BuffaloChuck wrote: | | For what reason is that? To sell frequently called phone numbers to ?? and make more money? How? Why? |
The initial reasoning was to sell targeted advertising through the softphone's ad window.
After a year, it doesn't seem like that's panned out. The only ads have been MJ's self-service ads. If it doesn't pan out, I suspect a big change in service. Eliminate the monitoring clause of the ToS. Increase prices due to the ad-based revenue never materializing. Focus on ATA-based services in addition to computer-based softphone. (No more "jack").
If you're suggesting they're using the call history for other purposes, like to sell your number to related parties, I haven't received any tele-marketing calls in 6 months.
I don't see any other way the info could be used. It wouldn't be useful for demographics without a lot of information about you (age, sex, race, education level, marital status, income level, etc.).
Mark |
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AlaninKY
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me
Joined: 12 Nov 2007
Posts: 270
Location: Louisville, KY USA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| My theory is with the economy tanking magicJack has decided to hold off on the soft phone ads from other companies. Plus magicJack is trying to build a bigger base of customers for when the time is better to try to get ads. |
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Fukbin
MagicJack Newbie
Joined: 28 Dec 2008
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:18 am Post subject: Limiting calls |
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If they do it to me, I will have the charges reversed by AMEX. It costs $120 in CA to file a small claims suit; bring it on. They need the publicity.
And I say "SHAME ON CNBC" for endorsing them w/o doing their research!!! For the love of money!
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FukBin-Magic Jack made me love Ma Bell. |
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cdwaldron
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me
Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 107
Location: Tucson, AZ
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| Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2008 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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Shoo, go back under your rock!
_________________
Holman TC5700 512/1gb
MJ user since 7/08
' bout ready to go Call Centric |
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norml jack
Dan isn't smart enough to hire me
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Humboldt County, Ca.
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| Posted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| brittany28 wrote: | I was watching a program that I happened to be recording when I fell asleep. The next day, when I checked my recording there was a magic jack infomercial on my tape. I just reviewed that tape, and they absolutely stated "unlimited calls" again and again.
This is clearly and overtly deceptive. |
CLASS, are you ready for ACTION?
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WIN_55,212-2 My new best friend on the recreational playground. It's a gas! |
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