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jonathankpa
Newbie
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: MJ on DSL. Alarm system on Phone. Interferes - but how!?! |
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testing123 notes that an MJ on DSL should not interfere with Alarm system on phone line. How does mine?
Per testing123:
"4) SEPARATED from Alarm System and NO INTERFERENCE with Alarm System Operation -- now Alarm System phone line "cut" during emergency does NOT cut DSL signal (in case it is a false) -- otherwise who cares if the DSL is still connected while your house is getting "jacked" LOL"
I have an issue with my MJ, related to this.
I have DSL - and it's split as you described in this post. The "line" enters house - a whole-house DSL filter splits DSL off to the router. The phone line goes to an "old-fashioned style" splitter - to threaded metal posts - with nuts. All the phone lines in the house intersect here - the wires are simply screwed onto the posts (2 posts; 1 for each wire) with a few nuts.
Problem:
When my MJ is in use (technically - the problem seems to be when the MJ is hooked up to the PC - on DSL - AND connected to a phone) my alarm system (on the phone line - NOT on the MJ!) cannot dial out.
This is repeatable. Alarm system acts fine - but when a test is run (which dials out on the phone line to the security company) the alarm panel errors out. Alarm company confirms this. When the phone is disconnected from the MJ (on the PC, on DSL) - the alarm system works fine.
So how an the MJ change the DSL signal - to interfere with the phone line - which are separated from each other by the DSL (whole-house) filter??
I am an elec. engineer but cannot figure this out.
Thanks in advance! |
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tony
MagicJack Contributor
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 74
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:25 pm Post subject: Re: MJ on DSL. Alarm system on Phone. Interferes - but how |
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| jonathankpa wrote: | | When my MJ is in use (technically - the problem seems to be when the MJ is hooked up to the PC - on DSL - AND connected to a phone) my alarm system (on the phone line - NOT on the MJ!) cannot dial out. |
In some alarm setups, the land line goes direct to the alarm box, then back to the distribution block. That way the alarm box can grab the line to dial out even if someone is talking on the phone. When an alarm is triggered, the alarm control box "hangs up" the line momentarily to end the voice call, then picks up again to dial the monitoring station. Is yours setup this way? Or are the MJ and the landline connected direct to the distribution block? If the MJ is off hook, then the alarm box won't detect a dial tone to make the call to the monitoring station. |
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jonathankpa
Newbie
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:29 pm Post subject: Alarm on PHONE (not MJ) - but MJ (on DSL) still interferes! |
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| tony wrote: |
In some alarm setups, the land line goes direct to the alarm box, then back to the distribution block. That way the alarm box can grab the line to dial out even if someone is talking on the phone. When an alarm is triggered, the alarm control box "hangs up" the line momentarily to end the voice call, then picks up again to dial the monitoring station. Is yours setup this way? Or are the MJ and the landline connected direct to the distribution block? If the MJ is off hook, then the alarm box won't detect a dial tone to make the call to the monitoring station. |
I know this is unusual, but I am NOT trying to run the alarm system through the MJ. The MJ is on my PC (of course), which is on DSL. The alarm system is on the phone line (NOT the MJ).
The way the alarm system seems to be setup:
It taps into the phone line the same way all my other phone lines do. This IS NOT the problem, as it worked before the MJ was installed. The alarm co. rep tells me that the alarm panel puts a voltage (or something) on the phone line momentarily to cause any current call to drop. Once the call drops, the alarm panel then can use the line.
The MJ (DSL) and landline DO share a line - but the DSL side is filtered from the landline (all phones & alarm system). That is - line comes into house & splits. DSL is filtered from all phones. DSL goes to PC and hence MJ. The phone side goes to all phones & the alarm system. |
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tony
MagicJack Contributor
Joined: 04 May 2008
Posts: 74
Location: Vancouver, BC
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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| I understand your setup now. I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions. Seems it should work. Can you dial out from another phone on the landline system while the MJ is plugged in? if you can, then the alarm is picking up some other signal stopping it from dialing. If you can't make a call from another phone on the landline side, then there's more going on. Going out on a stretch here, maybe try swapping out the DSL filter? Or unplug all the other phones on your landline side and try the alarm dialler. I don't have your original post visible, but I recall you had 1 DSL filter for the entire landline side. I thought you needed one for each phone (and one for the alarm box)? |
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jonathankpa
Newbie
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject: Replying to Testing123 |
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| testing123 wrote: | Hi, couple of questions:
1) What brand DSL Splitter are you using? Secor? Another?
2) Are you absolutely sure you have the Phone and DSL connected properly at this splitter (i.e., rather than having them reversed?
3) What DSL modem/router are you using?
4) Is the PC that the MJ is connected to the only device using your DSL in your tests?
I just want to get a baseline as to what you have.
It may be better to post in this particular question in the forum in case others catch what I may miss
This is quite strange but seems to be some type of crosstalk. Let me know. Thanks
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1) Splitter (installed by Verizon):
Brand: TII Model: 95S-1-09-1
2) Verizon connected it - but it has to be correct. Both DSL and phone(s) worked fine before MJ was installed. DSL and phones work fine WITH MJ installed. Only thing known to NOT work is Alarm System (on phone line; not on MJ) when MJ is running w/ a phone connected to the MJ.
3) DSL modem router (supplied by Verizon):
Westell Model: D90-327W15-06 Rev. G
4) Yes - the DSL line is a home run - 1 line only - from the splitter to the router. Router has 1 (only 1) Ethernet line running directly to the PC. |
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jonathankpa
Newbie
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:06 pm Post subject: @ Tony, re: filters & phone functionality. |
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| tony wrote: | | I understand your setup now. I'm afraid I don't have any suggestions. Seems it should work. Can you dial out from another phone on the landline system while the MJ is plugged in? if you can, then the alarm is picking up some other signal stopping it from dialing. If you can't make a call from another phone on the landline side, then there's more going on. Going out on a stretch here, maybe try swapping out the DSL filter? Or unplug all the other phones on your landline side and try the alarm dialler. I don't have your original post visible, but I recall you had 1 DSL filter for the entire landline side. I thought you needed one for each phone (and one for the alarm box)? |
Tony - I think other phones work when MJ is plugged in because I've used the MJ to call them. I will test more. See my other post for info on DSL filter. I will try playing w/ DSL filters & the phones.
There is 1 DSL filter to filter DSL off the entire landline side. Because DSL never reaches the landline side, filters on each line aren't needed. In otherwords, DSL is filtered off the landline /before/ it splits out to all the phones. (Typically, as you mention, DSL is not filtered from the jacks throughout the house. In that case, filters are needed on every phone.)
Thanks again - I'll check the remaining things & post soon. |
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testing123
Dan Should Pay Me
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 589
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:13 am Post subject: Re: MJ on DSL. Alarm system on Phone. Interferes - but how |
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| tony wrote: | | jonathankpa wrote: | | When my MJ is in use (technically - the problem seems to be when the MJ is hooked up to the PC - on DSL - AND connected to a phone) my alarm system (on the phone line - NOT on the MJ!) cannot dial out. |
In some alarm setups, the land line goes direct to the alarm box, then back to the distribution block. That way the alarm box can grab the line to dial out even if someone is talking on the phone. When an alarm is triggered, the alarm control box "hangs up" the line momentarily to end the voice call, then picks up again to dial the monitoring station. Is yours setup this way? Or are the MJ and the landline connected direct to the distribution block? If the MJ is off hook, then the alarm box won't detect a dial tone to make the call to the monitoring station. |
This is actually an interesting possible clue.
You may want to check how the alarm is connected to the NID ("black box" outside your house where the phone line comes in).
It can be pretty ratty how people do it -- i.e., what SHOULD happen is that the phone line coming in is "hijacked" to go straight to the alarm panel and brought BACK to the NID which is then taken to the various phone lines through out the house.
I am beginning to believe that there may be some issue with your DSL Splitter being connected AFTER the "hijack" rather than before it.
In other simple words:
TELCO -> NID -> DSL Splitter ---> Leg1: "hijack" straight to Alarm panel, back to NID (for distribution to all house phones)
TELCO -> NID -> DSL Spliiter ---> Leg2: "home run" to DSL Modem
Alarm panel (leg1) should probably come back to NID (where the confusion may exist right now) and should then go out to all the phones in the house. At this point this line should contain NO DSL signal (and of course, no filters necessary etc.).
In fact, as I type this, why not try to put the DSL Modem on this leg to see if you can get sync -- if you can, then there is some crossover.
Check on this because I think there may be crossover at the NID.
_________________
MJ via Pascal on Elf II 
Tactics + Strategy = Clear & Decisive Victory ... I guess he DOES understand the difference, huh? |
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jonathankpa
Newbie
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:00 pm Post subject: Re: MJ on DSL. Alarm system on Phone. Interferes - but how |
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| testing123 wrote: |
TELCO -> NID -> DSL Splitter ---> Leg1: "hijack" straight to Alarm panel, back to NID (for distribution to all house phones)
TELCO -> NID -> DSL Spliiter ---> Leg2: "home run" to DSL Modem |
OK - it's late once again so I won't get to test this tonight, but I'll summarize in your handy format how my system is setup:
TELCO -> NID -> DSL Splitter ---> Leg1: to old fashioned 2 post junction that splits to all phones, including Alarm Panel
TELCO -> NID -> DSL Splitter ---> Leg2: "home run" to DSL Modem
That is - Alarm panel does not hijack the line, but supposedly (worked before MJ) makes other phones drop a call, and then grabs the line.
Thoughts?
I'll try to test the suggestions tomorrow evening. |
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testing123
Dan Should Pay Me
Joined: 13 Nov 2007
Posts: 589
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| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:25 pm Post subject: Re: MJ on DSL. Alarm system on Phone. Interferes - but how |
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| jonathankpa wrote: | | testing123 wrote: |
TELCO -> NID -> DSL Splitter ---> Leg1: "hijack" straight to Alarm panel, back to NID (for distribution to all house phones)
TELCO -> NID -> DSL Spliiter ---> Leg2: "home run" to DSL Modem |
OK - it's late once again so I won't get to test this tonight, but I'll summarize in your handy format how my system is setup:
TELCO -> NID -> DSL Splitter ---> Leg1: to old fashioned 2 post junction that splits to all phones, including Alarm Panel
TELCO -> NID -> DSL Splitter ---> Leg2: "home run" to DSL Modem
That is - Alarm panel does not hijack the line, but supposedly (worked before MJ) makes other phones drop a call, and then grabs the line.
Thoughts?
I'll try to test the suggestions tomorrow evening. |
My recommendation:
1) (Easy) Put DSL Modem on one of your regular phone jacks (split off from the two post connector you mention)
a) Does your DSL Modem sync up?
b) Yes -> Then DSL signal is "leaking" thru
c) No -> Scrap this hypothesis
2) (More involved) Can you disconnect all phone jacks EXCEPT Alarm Panel from two post connector? Does it all work this way?
a) Yes -> get another connector (or a "punch down block") and only have hte alarm panel connected to old two post; bring a return line from alarm panel back to punchdown block where you then connect all phones in the house -- you have, in effect, done the proper "hijack scenario"
b) No --> Scrap this hypothesis
Report back and let us know.
_________________
MJ via Pascal on Elf II
Tactics + Strategy = Clear & Decisive Victory ... I guess he DOES understand the difference, huh? |
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jonathankpa
Newbie
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: MJ on DSL. Alarm system on Phone. Interferes - but how |
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| testing123 wrote: |
My recommendation:
1) (Easy) Put DSL Modem on one of your regular phone jacks (split off from the two post connector you mention)
a) Does your DSL Modem sync up?
b) Yes -> Then DSL signal is "leaking" thru
c) No -> Scrap this hypothesis
2) (More involved) Can you disconnect all phone jacks EXCEPT Alarm Panel from two post connector? Does it all work this way?
a) Yes -> get another connector (or a "punch down block") and only have hte alarm panel connected to old two post; bring a return line from alarm panel back to punchdown block where you then connect all phones in the house -- you have, in effect, done the proper "hijack scenario"
b) No --> Scrap this hypothesis
Report back and let us know. |
Sounds like a good plan. Have a punch down block that can use if Test (2) is required. Will do! |
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jonathankpa
Newbie
Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sat Dec 13, 2008 10:03 pm Post subject: Test 1 |
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OK - half way there. Tried the easy test. Took DSL modem to 2 other phone jacks in house, which should be filtered by the whole house filter. It did not sync, which was as-expected. Will try the other more in-depth test soon.
Thanks again, all, for the help! |
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