magicJack and MagicJack Plus Support, Reviews, FAQs and Hacks

slceso · MagicJack User Joined: 18 Feb 2010 Posts: 40

Hi all,

I was inspired by some posts I read that indicated that MJ would run on a WT9235LE. However, now that the thing is enroute ($32 shipped; from ebay), I have read some other posts that may indicate that due to recent MJ updates, this unit may no longer work.

for your reading pleasure:

http://www.magicjacksupport.com/magicjack-on-this-thin-client-t3879.html

http://www.magicjacksupport.com/minimum-system-requirements-t2412.html

http://www.magicjacksupport.com/how-to-reinstall-or-hack-the-passwords-on-a-wyse-wt9235le-t8003.html

http://www.magicjacksupport.com/problems-with-evo-t20-t7903.html

MagicMo has provided a lot of good info, and I'm looking for any other success stories or problems that others have encountered. Mostly I want to know if I have to upgrade from the stock 192/256, and if it's a waste of time to mess with this box with the current rev of MJ.

Kind regards

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MagicMo · magicJack Apprentice Joined: 03 Aug 2008 Posts: 21

Hi slceso,

You seem to have located the relevent threads for running MJ on the WT9235LE.

I'm running 256M flash & 384M RAM on mine. As far as using less, I don't recall if I've ever tried it. More RAM is always better with XP, so you may encounter performance issues with too little.

Even with my 256M flash, I had to clean house and uninstall or delete anything not needed by MJ - XP stuff as well as applications. The problem is that MJ is quite the pig. It creates multiple directories with the same files in each one, and this requires significant space. A larger amount of flash eases this struggle.

Regardless of the amount of memory on board, you may encounter the recently identified problem with installing MJ on an XP machine with only SP1. I don't know if this is an issue or not, but it appears to have been so from the error message posted here by one user. I'd be curious as to whether you encounter this error or not.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

MagicMo

slceso · MagicJack User Joined: 18 Feb 2010 Posts: 40

just came in the mail. gonna try it..

problem one.. even though this is an old piece of crap, no PS2 ports.. hehe..had to hijack my good keyboard.

I'll post more if I figure out anything..

slceso · MagicJack User Joined: 18 Feb 2010 Posts: 40

ok, deleted some progs, set to auto login, plugged in the dongle...

got the standard MJ splash and "lucky you".. softphone comes up and everything initializes. I can attempt a call with the softphone (and get a dialtone with the jack), but when I attempt a call it maxes out all of the resources on this little puppy and it chokes.

so, I am going to try to scrounge for a little extra memory or something., maybe remove some more progs/components. I haven't given up on this thing yet..

[MagicMo]
where did you add your memory; was it a 512 stick?

I see the 144 pin dimm slot (currently occupied w/ 256 I think) and the onboard chips of the same make on the other side of the pcb (the flash mem?), then there is the smartmedia card (64mb). maybe I'm not thinking outside of the box here, but is the flash mem not the smart card?
are the chips on the bottom of the PCB the NVRAM?

MagicMo · magicJack Apprentice Joined: 03 Aug 2008 Posts: 21

Hi slceso,

As you've discovered, this thin client is what is referred to as “legacy free”, ie. no ps/2, serial, or parallel ports. They're not needed anyhow when running it headless.

First off, I'm surprised that you did not encounter the problem another user had, where MJ refused to load due to the machine only running XP SP1. That one is still puzzling... Sad

Re maxing out your resources. More memory may help, especially if you can use the extra RAM to create a bigger swap/page file. I was also unaware until lately that there is yet another version of the MJ which apparently uses much less hardware resources. Check out this discussion:
http://www.magicjacksupport.com/wyse-9150-512flash-256ram-slow-magicjack-help-t6799.html

My unit has 128MB RAM soldered on the bottom of the pcb (U4, U5, U6, U7). I then added a 256MB SoDIMM (Micron MT8LSDT3264HG-133) to socket J2 on the top side. I don't think these units will accept a 512MB module, but if you have one, I'd sure like to know the results.

I have 128MB flash soldered on the bottom of the pcb (U8, U9). My additional flash is in the form of a 128MB SmartMedia card in socket J4. 128MB is the max available size for a SmartMedia card. It sounds like you have 128MB soldered on your pcb – that's ideal, so it is possible to get to 256MB by adding a 128MB card. These cards can be difficult to extract, so I recommend adding a tab of tape to the top edge of the card to ease this process.

You may notice during power-up (or is it down?) of the unit that it goes through a phase where it says... verifying flash device 1, device 2, device 3. These correspond to U8, U9, and the SmartMedia card.

The other thing I had to do in order to get my unit working was to dig up and install the necessary tiger audio drivers.

MagicMo

slceso · MagicJack User Joined: 18 Feb 2010 Posts: 40

Mo,

in rereading the other fellow's post who had the probs with SP1, he mentions "getting drivers from another computer" and I wonder if that caused some sort of conflict because the drivers didn't sync up with the installed version or something along those lines. MJ phasing out support wouldn't necessarily indicate to me that the installer would no longer work, but it is curious that they went to the trouble to make that dialogue box if this was not the case.

any hoo,

EDIT:found this http://open-evot20.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?n=Hardware.291696
so, how did you identify the function of all of the onboard components? I couldn't find a good description of the PCB layout anywhere. I googled the part number of the mem chips, and deduced that the installed DIMM was a 256mb module (but I may be wrong). the same model chips are soldered on the bottom of the PCB with the designators you mentioned (U4-7). Since the specs are 256MB ram and 192 flash, that makes me think that I have 128ram onboard, 128ram in the socket, 64mb flash on the SM card, and another 128 on the U8-9.
-As a side note, when I pull the SM and put it in a card reader, I can't even look at it. probably a fault in my card reader.

looking at prices, 128mb SM goes for $29 shipped from ebay, and the DIMM for $10-20 (if it is even compatible). I'm starting to feel like I'm in a Pontiac Fiero enthusiasts' club...

if I can't scrounge some for free, an Alpman custom may be in my future..

Thanks for the good info!

MagicMo · magicJack Apprentice Joined: 03 Aug 2008 Posts: 21

Hi slceso,

That's an idea, perhaps it was an incorrect driver which caused the installation failure. I'm glad that you did not encounter this with your installation. It had me concerned enough that did not want to reflash my unit for fear that I would then be unable to reinstall MJ.

Yes the parts list you found is something that Karl and I put together for the open-evot20 mailing list. What you linked to is for the 16M flash / 32M RAM Compaq T20 version. A better match to your hardware is the WT8235LE:
http://open-evot20.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php?n=Hardware.8235

The differences are amount of flash & RAM, plus the 9235 has a larger BIOS (512k vs 256k). Identifying the function of onboard devices was simple – I've designed with these types of parts in the past.

I think the problem you encountered with trying to read the SM card is that it is not a standard format. The 192MB of flash you have might be enough, especially since you did manage to install MJ. Try to ditch anything not necessary to free up all the space you can. Additional RAM should help with your performance issue. Check your local Craig's List – this is old laptop SoDIMM memory. Also if you have one of the later chips in your MJ with the lessor CPU demand, you may be home free.

The memory modules listed on the above referenced parts list are ones I've actually tried and worked. Other similar type parts should work also. A 512MB SoDIMM is something I've never tried. The chips you are finding on your card are most likely 256Mbit (not MByte) chips. 256Mbit x 4 chips / 8bits/byte = 128MByte.

Hey a friend of mine had a Fiero – brings back some memories, a really fun little car!

MagicMo

slceso · MagicJack User Joined: 18 Feb 2010 Posts: 40

Mo,

I used to work for a guy who had his "good" fiero and a parts fiero (to me there was no difference). He could talk forever about that thing. What he said was great about it was that it shared so many parts with the Citation.. and that's kind of where I stopped listening to him.. regardless, they don't hold a candle to my '79 Buick Regal! hehe..

So, while I look for a SoDIMM, I am gong to attempt something radical. I am going to see if I can break the 128MB barrier with SMC. In doing some research on SMC, I found that some companies may have incorporated the ability to control up to 256MB into their SMC controllers, since 256MB cards were on the horizon when SMC was discontinued. I read on a Korg forum (like the musical keyboard) how some people were able to use a 256MB type H xD card and SMC to xD converter to replace their failing SM cards. The key is to format it with the device, not a card reader.

The parts were about $15 shipped from eBay, so half the price of a 128MB SMC. I don't have high hopes for success, but if it does work, it will be cool. If not, then I have more obsolete junk for my wife to crab at me about! It's win-win!!

I will have to re-image. what method do you think I should use? netxfer or thumb drive?

Have you ever used the VMC or rapport for anything? I was looking at using teamviewer since it is featured may times on the board.

So what other experience do you have with these things (design)? I had no idea that TCs even existed, let alone were so widely used until I started looking at all of this. I've seen that people use them for internet boxes, but I'm curious what I'll do with this if I can't make it work for MJ.

As far as the version of my MJ dongle, since I bought at Walmart I can only assume it is the worst possible version to own for whatever my problem is. I did, however, ID it as the Gen III from the photos HERE.

well, I'm taking a few days off until the parts arrive.

Thanks again for the great info,
Jason

MagicMo · magicJack Apprentice Joined: 03 Aug 2008 Posts: 21

Hi Jason,

I was unaware of the adapter from SM to xD - that does present an interesting possibility if it fits. To my knowledge, these Winterms do not have a dedicated SM controller chip. I believe this is handled by the Geode processor along with the U10 GAL. Assuming there is no hardcoded limitation, it just may work.

I've always flashed these devices using netxfer, a cross-over cable, and my notebook. This way I don't need to disrupt my network. I don't think this device can be flashed with a USB thumb drive. Wyse does have a utility for this, but I think it is only applicable to their later devices.

I not used any of the 'native' software on these units, like rapport, etc. I've flashed all my thin clients to Linux, with the exception of this one WT9235LE for use with MJ. While not very powerful machines by today's standards, they are fine with Linux, depending upon the task. I like that they are very small, quiet, and very low power. I have one as my kitchen computer, and one as a music player (http://sourceforge.net/projects/musicpd/). When I get a proper LTSP server setup I want to use several with it.

I think the driving force behind the use of thin clients was in large businesses. Could you imagine being an IT person in a firm with thousands of PCs? What a nightmare to configure, troubleshoot, upgrade, etc. The thin clients allow then to use a standard configuration for each seat, all remotely managed and upgraded. Since most applications run on the central server, that is where the real management work is. I have too many PCs, and I see this as an advantage for myself as well. Rolling Eyes

Plus without any real storage capability on the thin clients, files are stored on the server and routinely backed up. It eliminates the all too often problem of “Help, I lost my file involving xx days of work...”.

While thin clients won't totally replace PCs in the workplace for those who need to run specialized software like engineering apps, they are perfect for say insurance firms where many employees need access to the customer's info to process claims and input data (hence the many included terminal emulations). The company can also more easily lock them down to prevent things like internet surfing and the introduction of viruses.

Regarding versions of MJ, I don't think it is as simple as most people initially believed. The usual method of identifying “versions” has been via the pcb configuration. I think the real key is by the version of the Magic Chip on the pcb. Look carefully through the plastic window on the MJ at the large IC on the pcb under the 'a' in magicjack (for Gen 2&3; Gen 1 has 2 chips). My guess is that the older versions of this chip rely more on the software to implement functions (remember the 'soft' modems?), while the later versions have moved some of this into firmware – thus easing the CPU load requirements. See the discussion below on pages 2 & 3:
http://www.magicjacksupport.com/wyse-9150-512flash-256ram-slow-magicjack-help-t6799.html

Keep us posted on how things progress – it's a learning experience for all of us!

MagicMo

slceso · MagicJack User Joined: 18 Feb 2010 Posts: 40

Mo,

I got the parts in and installed them (except for the Dimm). I flashed with the 256mb image from the wyse website, and had all indications that it was successful. however, following the reboot, it goes through the POST and tries to boot via PXE, the exits PXE, then apparently hangs after it says
(c) Wyse v2.3

in the POST, it shows "Drive 80: 256MB"

I pulled the SMC adapter with the xD in it and looked at it with Acronis disk director, and formated, wiped, etc. this doesn't appear to affect the ability of the TC to flash properly.

like I said before, if I try to read the old 64MB SMC with my card reader, it doesn't even see it. I know you said it was a different format, so I was wondering if I could get this xD card to that format. I read about a program called SMPREP that restores Olympus formatting for SMC, but I don't know if it's the same. (tried SMPREP and it is driver specific to your card reader = no worky).

If I can't get this to work, I will have to buy a 128MB SMC or risk another dud with a 128 xD for nearly the same price.

thoughts?

as always, thanks,
J

EDIT: I replaced the 64mb SMC and when I pushed the image, it formated an additional "device2 64MB" (previously just U8=Device0 and U9=Device1 at 64MB ea) that it had not when the xD was installed. Only prob is that it is an SP-nothing version of XPe. the SP1 image is in .i2d format so you need WSI instead of NetXfer.

Now working on a way to format the xD so that the TC can see it to format it on the flash.. probably a wild goose chase..

Alpman · Posted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:04 am Post subject:

You are definately more ambitious than I with this project. If you ever get this going I can turn you onto a guy with hundreds of T20's real cheap, if he hasn't thrown them out yet. Good luck with it!!!
_________________
Regards,

Alpman aka acpcguy on ebay
angelscamp.pc.guy@sbcglobal.net

slceso · MagicJack User Joined: 18 Feb 2010 Posts: 40

I'm not really seeing a success path here, as most of the info that I've found confirms that the Wyse smart media is some kind of non-standard format (the memory itself, not the "partitioning") that consists of the same nand chips that are soldered onboard in a SMC (or in some other models CF) form factor.

so, speaking of ambition, has anyone ever tried replacing the nand chips on the boards (or period)? c'mon, they're only 50 micro solder joints apiece!

I just hate to shelf this project because the stupid SMC is obsolete/ cost prohibitive.

Alpman, I'd love to get this working, cause like you said there are a ton of these things floating around, but even with the mem upgrades, that GX1 just may not have the horsepower for MJ.

r/
J

MagicMo · magicJack Apprentice Joined: 03 Aug 2008 Posts: 21

Hi Jason,

As far as the Drive 80: 256MB display in the POST, I think this is a hard coded value in the firmware image. I have two XPe units, one with 256MB (128 soldered, 128 SM) and the second one currently only has 128MB (SM card removed). Both show this same item in the POST (the second one crashes without the extra flash).

I really don't know what sort of format is used for the flash - but I suspect it is nonstanard. Since the flash is erased during the programming process, any format would need to be applied by the unit, after this erase. One reason you may not have seen anything on your 64MB SM card could be due to writing a 128MB image to the unit - it would have fit entirely into the 128MB soldered onto the pcb. Do you recall if you saw it erase all three devices when flashing the unit? If so, it may just be blank.

How did the xD to SM adapter fit into the pcb? I wondered if the extra length of this adapter would hit the tall caps while trying to insert it. Plus it is thicker and projects more towards the pcb than an SM card does.

I don't think there is anything special about the Wyse SM cards. Mine are from various manufacturers. I hadn't realized they were scarce and somewhat pricey - I should have grabbed the several 128MB ones I saw on closeout in a local store last year for $10 each! Craig's List is another possibility for finding some cards, and checkout www.searchallcraigs.com for wide ranging searches!

Replacing the onboard flash devices is challenging. I've done devices with this lead pitch before, but fewer pins. The biggest problem here is eliminating solder bridges between the leads. Most firms/assembly houses have skilled personnel who can do this swap without great difficulty - I'm always amazed by their proficiency. If you want to attempt it, I'd suggest looking at some of the aids from ChipQuik. Be glad the packages are not BGAs, specialized equipment needed for those.

Yeah it looks like you will need to use WSI in order to flash the 192MB image (w/SP1) into your unit. I've not used this program, only NetXfer, but it is available for download from Wyse. Here's a little more info on it:
http://www.freewysemonkeys.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=47

Which version of XPe did your unit have in it when you did the initial install? If it was the 128MB image without any service packs, and MJ installed, why not continue to use this? You are already starting with a smaller image which leaves more space for MJ. Plus with the additional RAM, it should now perform better.

MagicMo

slceso · MagicJack User Joined: 18 Feb 2010 Posts: 40

Hi Mo!

based on what you are saying about the image size showing up on the post, I think the TC was unable to see the xD/SMC before. When I reflashed with my 64mb SMC installed, it flashed 3 64mb devices, whereas it only flashed 2 before. It's strange though, since it reported success on both ends.

As far as the formatting goes, best I can tell, SMC has a low level formatting that contains the CIS and is not repaired by doing a regular format (Win, acronis, or the like). SMC cards get borked whenever people try to use them with a card reader, or fill them too full, and the formatting is damaged. there is a program called SMPREP that can fix this, however it is driver dependent and is tied to specifice card readers that are a scarce commodity. There are SMC repair companies that will reformat for a few dollars, but I still don't know if MJ will work regardless of the available storage space.

as far as fit up with the adapter, it takes some maneuvering, but it installs/removes easy. you have to flex the adapter PCB a bit toet past those caps, but once installed, you can even install/remove the xD with no prob. Because of the thickness/shape of the adapter xD socket cover, the adapter PCB remains slightly flexed when installed in the SMC socket. the adapter contacts the mainboard, but I don't think it's an issue. I had originally removed the cover to make it a bit slimmer, but was worried about shorting the mainboard since the xD socket is metal and would rest on the mainboard components. I thought about putting tape over it or another dielectric, but it may give up to a mm or so of extra play. the adapter still rests on the maniboard.

who would of thought these SMC would be such a problem.. at least it doesn't use 5-1/4 floppy or cassette tape.

I don't think I will pursue replacing the NAND chips onboard. I would likely burn them up anyway, since my soldering is more like brazing. Bigger the glob, the better the job! Besides that, I'm not smart enough to spec out a chip that would be gauranteed compatible.

I like the idea of using the smaller images. The wyse images are different though than what was on the TC when I got it. The seller said that they flashed them to the latest firmware, but when I do it, I'm missing some of the basic XP functions (add/remove programs, control userpasswords2) and some of the other things like Rapport must be installed separately. I think I may have broken my 64mb SMC, though because when I am done, the c:\ is only 120mb.. more to follow on that.

I should be getting my SoDimm any day now, so I'll post more then.

cheers,
Jason

MagicMo · magicJack Apprentice Joined: 03 Aug 2008 Posts: 21

Hey 5-1/4" floppy disks and cassette tapes are modern stuff! I remember the 8" floppy, DECtape, punched paper tape, and IBM cards. I've even got some old relays laying around here - out of the inner workings of some really old machines!

I have a ZiO! SM card reader here which is supposed to work with SMPREP, but I've not had the need to do so yet.

As far as a possible replacement onboard flash device, a cursory look shows the TC58512FT to be a promising candidate. Same package, timing & pinout - although I've not dug deeply into the datasheets to verify all its parameters. Unfortunately a quick check of availability shows a 12-week lead time and $21 each! I think a SM card is the cheaper approach.

Wyse often placed custom images in these units for various customers - FedEx, Sears, ClearCube, NAPA, Safeway, Toy-r-Us, Wal-Mart, etc. In fact I still see some units in use at the local Sears store. I've been tempted to flip one over and check the part number, but was afraid it might upset someone. Wink

From the top, one can not tell if it is a 3235, 8235, or 9235 - they all use the same case.

The only images available on their website are the generic versions. If you have the part number from the bottom of your unit, in the form of 902xxx-xx, I can tell you its factory configuration and if it was a custom unit built for a specific customer. My two XPe units are 902038-26, which were 256F/256R units built for ClearCube.

If you are knowledgeable in software, there are items like bundle-tools available from
http://winterm.gaast.net/downloads/
I think this will allow you to split the image file into its individual files, and then reassemble them. This might allow you to install the missing items from one of the larger images.

I believe that the drive size reported at POST is strictly a function of whatever value is in the image. The image loaded into these units contains data for the BIOS, two onboard flash devices, and optionally the SM flash. My C: drive is listed as NTFS 254,541,312 bytes, and my RAM drive Z: is FAT 31,378,432 bytes. So I guess this indicates that the flash format is standard after all. The C: drive is compressed as well.

MagicMo